205: Umma (2022)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Oh, this is this is my therapy for the week, thanks. Oh sorry. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. We need more colonies. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

A total joke, a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're raiding these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

You can't even make friends.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

This week we're making the most of our AMC A list subscriptions by checking out a newly released film starring Sandra O. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Let's follow up on a movie. Okay, so we recently reviewed I what I would describe as an instant classic, Get Out by Jordan Peel. This was a really great episode. If you haven't had a chance to listen to it, circle back, give it a listen. We had some really great conversation, but as always, our conversation doesn't end when our episode ends. We wanted to hear from our listeners, so the poll results are in, and Chris, I'm so pleased. Only 9% of the voters had the audacity to hack this movie, and the other 91% are on the right side of history.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Oh, I'm so glad that people have good taste. I was really nervous for a second after this movie got its universal slash here, after I stopped and pondered the reality that so many people love it, I thought, will the internet let us down?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

They sure did not. We have a couple comments from our listeners. Jay on Twitter said, easy slash, huge cultural and societal impact, as well as just being a phenomenal film with great performances. I don't understand how anyone can consider this to be a hack.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And yet I bet someone does consider it a hack.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

And that someone would be Greg. Greg on Twitter said this.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

100% a hack. While the acting is okay, watching paint dry is more entertaining than this film. The only good thing about this movie is Rod.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Oh come on, Greg, what?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I mean Rod is one of the best things about this movie, but this movie's not boring.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Even if you were to try to say it's a hack, I don't see 100% a hack. I really don't.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Especially when you consider Rod in there. Rod is at least 15%. We have another comment from one of our patrons, Amber, who said this. I just watched this film for the first time a few weeks ago and was happy to see this on the recording schedule. The social awareness of this film is heartbreaking and refreshing at the same time. The acting is convincing, and the script was smart. Definitely deserving of the universal slash it earned. Thank you for reviewing this one.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Oh my gosh, Amber, I'm so glad you guys have experienced this for the first time. I I think one of the things that we talked about in that episode is like how amazing it would be to go back and experience this for the first time ever, considering how well it's aged even since 2017, but oh I love this.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

The stars aligned for Amber. We have one final comment from another patron, Jake. Jake said this. It really did pave a new road for the voice of horror and created something truly unique. I don't watch it often now because I watched it to death the first year of owning the Blu-ray, but to this day, I personally believe Allison Williams' character Rose should be in the homes of horror movie enthusiasts chilling in the same collectible of toy shelves as Ghostface, Freddy, and Jason. There is nothing more frightening than a methodical, calculating white lady blending in the crowd and on the hunt. This movie is 1000% a slash, and I can't wait to see Jordan Peel's Nope.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Ooh, I can't wait for Nope either. You know, I'm with you every step of the way except for Rose having her own figure on like Ghostface, Freddie, and Jason. Because here's the thing. I think the point is they get glorified too much.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

You know what I mean? Rose doesn't deserve more than she has now, you know?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

The danger of glorifying that character.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Mm-hmm. Honestly, the danger of glorifying any fucking character, these are horror movies.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Let's give Chris an action figure and Rod an action figure and Lori an action figure.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Chris says surrounded by action figures of murderers.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

In her own home.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

That is true. I I do have many of those.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, this week we made some adjustments to our lineup to squeeze in a film neither one of us saw coming. This Sam Raimi produced film is written and directed by Iris K. Shim, who used a project as an opportunity to explore the generational and cultural divides between three women, specifically when the matriarch of the family passes away and her daughter is left to put the pieces back together. This week we're talking about Oma. What were you expecting going into this pairs?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

So this movie came up on my radar maybe four weeks ago, five weeks ago. It just randomly was floating around on Twitter out of nowhere. I don't know when this movie was started production. I don't know why nobody talked about the fact that Sandra O was creating a horror movie. She's also the executive producer on this, which I was like, oh my god, why is nobody talking about this? And then in the weeks that followed, it was more like radio silence. I saw one trailer at a point and I was like, I'm not gonna watch this because I'm definitely gonna see this movie. Um, so going into the theaters, I was like, I don't know if they want this movie to fail. I don't know why this movie feels so like secretive or like poorly marketed, but I was expecting it to be like any Sandra O Vehicle, very well performed. I was expecting some really dramatic performances, like just the acting of it all. And as for horror goes, I was expecting it to be something more like haunting and ambient and low encore. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I would say about the same. So you shared this poster with me. And when the trailer dropped, I did watch it. And I already knew that the subject matter was gonna be really sensitive for me. I have a very hard time dealing with films that talk about moms. I have my own like relationship with my mom, and I'm just not at a point in in life where I want to even think about like mothers passing. I just really can't do that. But that's basically the entire vehicle of this film. And so I expected it to be dramatic, as you said, but I expected it to be haunting more so in the same way that I was haunted by his house. I was expecting to be hit in my feelings, not exactly in the way that his house does, but more in the way that it makes me reflect on certain elements of my life that I haven't really thoroughly considered before.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

That is a really good point you bring up, Chris. I knew that oma was the Korean word for mom because it's similar to like the Japanese word for mom. And yet somehow I wasn't really expecting all of the mom stuff that we got. Uh, I too am known to have a beautiful and complicated relationship with my own mom. So I too was not necessarily prepared for a lot of the more emotional elements that we got in this.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

And to be clear, you did not watch the trailer at any point.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

I did not. I refused. I saw the poster and I said, Sandra O, horror movie, sign me up.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Okay, no, that's totally fair. Those expectations I think were largely met, but I wasn't prepared to see this movie still. This movie, I'm I'm gonna be honest, I cried. I'm not proud of the fact that I cried. It's one of those things where it's like, I feel like this movie was cathartic. It was therapeutic in a way. Not that my mother goes to any of the lengths that this Oma does by any means, right? But it's just the idea of the relationship specifically between mothers and daughters, and then the generational relationships that you have there between mothers, daughters, and grandchildren, and then adding in the layers of immigration, right? And having to start over in a country, having to make ends meet, and having to teach your kids how to dream or how to work hard or anything like that. It's really, really complicated. And then add in the folds and the burdens of the obligations that children have to their parents and how many people don't understand that. It was a mind fuck, honestly, Paris. It was really emotional, and I think this movie is really solid with it, some of it scares, but I think for me, this felt more like a therapeutic release than anything. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

I it felt therapeutic for sure, but I don't know that I got the same release. But I can say that I definitely experienced some of the same feelings while watching it. I was definitely reminded of moments that I've had with my own mother, and seeing the way that the relationship between like a mother and child is can be so complicated and so polarizing at times. You get so many different extremes in that sort of a relationship, at least in my personal experience and definitely in this movie as well. I also, as far as tension goes, I felt like it did a decent job of sort of building that. It definitely earned its title as a horror movie. It's not something where I'm gonna go home and be like, oh, this was not a horror movie. Why did we do this for the podcast? But I think a lot of the disappointments in this movie came in the form of some of its horror elements.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I feel you. This is one of those movies where I think the emotional heartstrings that are like felt all throughout this film are really the core of it. Whereas some other movies we've seen, the spooks are the core of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

The jump scares are this are the core of it. And I think this has plenty of that, but it's not the focus by any means, because I think the real horror is what you see in the mirror and what you see in your own heart when you're you know navigating these complex fam familial relationships. So I would say that I wasn't necessarily disappointed by that because I appreciated the direction they went. There is a bit that I was disappointed in visually, and it pulled me out of the movie really quickly, and thankfully it was gone really quickly too. So I I got brought back in. Oh my gosh, but I can't wait to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

For me, it was like a double whammy because there was one thing where I was like, ooh, I don't know. And then it was another thing that was even worse, and I was like, no, please don't fall apart. I was really concerned.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Okay. Even that didn't take away from the tension that I felt throughout the movie. This is when I think the emotions of it made it even more tense. And while I wasn't scared, it does really drum up those scary feelings I have about confronting things with my own family, right? And you know, this past year has been hell going through the pandemic and then you know, living in the emotional state that I do, like, you know, helping with my mom and my grandmother. And there was a point I when I thought I was watching my grandmother die. We ended up having to call 911, and I was like holding her hand, like tears welling in my eyes, because I thought I was watching her die in front of me. And thankfully she's okay, but it's one of those things where it's like the difference in dynamics of a granddaughter, a daughter, and a mother, and like a grandmother. And I think this movie, particularly that trifecta of characters, it made me feel so seen that it also scared the hell out of me.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

I can definitely understand why you would feel that way, especially with the experiences that you've shared both on the pod and with me personally. I found it super interesting the way there were so many different elements in this movie that were all kind of rotating around the central storyline, which was definitely the driving force through this movie. And some of them I think lent themselves to a horror element better than others. Others gave me this sort of mystery that I was kind of intrigued by. And I was like, what's the story here? What really happened? When are we gonna find this out? Uh, I was keeping like a lot of mental notes in my mind of all the different information we were getting and how it was all gonna play out. I think there were actually some moments where I was so tense that a couple of the jump scares did get me. And I think part of that was due to Sandra O's performance. There were times where I had just like a sick feeling in my stomach, and anything that came at me felt like a gut punch to that feeling, and I was just like, uh, oh. Whereas I don't think if I had not cared about these characters, those jump scares would have been nearly as effective.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

I didn't get got by the jump scares at all, but there was one other person in my theater, and I saw him jump a few times, and I was like, ha ha, got him. But I think you're right, the emotional investment just does so much to put you in such a vulnerable state. And I think that is something that is handled so uniquely well in this movie, and it does remind me a bit of like the emotional vulnerability that I had watching his house, but in a completely different way. Yeah, I think the best horror movies I've seen are the ones that make me feel like I am acknowledging like an aspect of my own identity, and I am not Korean by any stretch of the imagination, but I think part of you know being able to be part of a show that talks about horror being for everyone, right? It's like how do you bring intersectionality to the table and how do you find bits of your own experience in the experience of someone else to bridge the gaps between us, right? And I think this movie, although it is framed through a Korean family, is really a universal story, and it's so fucking beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Okay, strong vibes coming from Chris. I wonder where this vote's gonna go. I definitely agree they did a really thoughtful job of telling a story with a cultural background that I don't think we necessarily see a lot represented in Western horror. So it definitely gets originality points for that. But I have to say there were a lot of elements in this that reminded me of other things. Some I don't necessarily want to share just because you may get some sort of idea of what spoilers could be, but it's very much like a haunting type of movie where there is some sort of presence in a house, isolated, limited resources, limited access to the outside world, what do we do? Um, little bit of gaslighting going on, little bit of unreliable perception and characters. Uh and some of those things worked for me, and other of them, others I was kind of like, eh, okay, I've seen this.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Okay, so I I don't disagree there, but I think the thing for me, there's like a minimum threshold that I'll go down to uh for it being a haunting, for it being a spooky thing. And where I think this one differentiates itself is because it's not the same patriarchal bullshit we keep seeing in every fucking haunting movie, and that's where it gets the originality points for me. Welcome to the motherfucking matriarchy, man, because I am so glad we don't have another story of some man moving his wife and child into some fucking house and then having to contend and and and battle with that. Now, his house did flip it on its head and contend with allegorical demons, but the fact that this movie takes the framing that it does and it makes very specific choices with the types of characters that it gives you. It's undoubtedly different from other ghost-y type haunting-y movies that I've seen. I think a lot of that is proven with the finality of its ending. I think this had an ending that I don't know that I've ever like wanted from another type of haunting movie, but it just made me feel so damn good.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

That's super interesting, Chris. Your compelling argument has swayed me to throw a couple more originality points towards this movie. Uh, you also made me realize something. I never noticed the absence of men, I only noticed the absence of women. So you saying this, I'm like, oh yeah, this is very that, and that might be part of why I enjoyed it. As far as the ending goes, though, I don't know that I feel the same. The ending to me was kind of it had flop energy. It wasn't a total miss, but it was kind of like, uh I guess. I can't think of what I would have done differently to make it a really stellar ending. But it was one of those movies where as I was going through it, I was like, okay, I'm on board, but I need this ending to hit it out of the park for me to really remember this movie. And I don't know that it did that.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Okay, well, I'll give you my opinions on the ending in just a bit when we get into the spoiler section. But before we start rating this movie, Paris, what's our body count?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Our body count is vague at best. We'll keep it ambiguous, like the film does, and we'll unpack it a little bit more in detail after the spoiler break.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

But what about the animal report? Is that also vague?

SPEAKER_00 16:16

The animal report's bad. It is and just in time for Easter, no less, not a good look. I think the peeps over at PETA will not be happy.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Oma from 2022, now showing in theaters. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_00 16:33

So it did not take a lot to sell me on seeing this movie. I saw Sandra O and I saw horror, and I said, I don't know when this happened, I don't know why everyone was keeping this secret from me, but I'm there. Now I actually don't know Sandra O from very many things. I never watched Grace Anatomy, I'm not one of those gays, but I did watch Killing Eve, in which she plays a really compelling lesbian or at least bisexual character, and the way she emotes on camera, I am just like, you were meant for the job you are doing. You know, when you see people and you're like, oh, you found the exact right career path and it's paying off for you. That's what Sandra O has going on. And in this movie, she delivered on all of that. This is a very character-driven movie, it's very story-driven. And while I was watching it, I had to sort of negotiate some of the worst visual effects I've seen in horror in a long time with what the intentions were with this movie. I think we have some really amazing performances, we have some really amazing characters. There were quite a few scenes that gave me a very visceral emotional reaction based on my own relationships, based on the performances from these actors, and I think the way it was able to evoke such a reaction from me definitely gives it some credit. The general horror element of this movie I think wasn't the best, but I think it was a really great vehicle to tell the story that it was telling. Now, I think that this movie and this might not be true at all, but it is my perception and my theory that this movie was snubbed, neglected, whatever by the studio. And I think because of that, it didn't get a fair shot in post-production. I think on set, everyone showed up, everyone did their job. The movie is technically sound, it is shot really well, the actors did an incredible job. But once it hit the editing room and some of the after effects had to be put in, I think they were just kind of like, whatever, we'll just do the bare minimum, we'll just phone it in, maybe some stock footage of things and just slap that in there. And I think that's really rude to do to this movie. With all of that being said, I am giving it a slash, but I'm mad that this movie did not get the care in post-production that it deserved.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

You know, Paris says interesting, and I can't wait to see things turn up even more for this film. I can't wait to hear more about its production process because I did not walk out of there with the same feeling that you did. I didn't feel like it had been snubbed. But I think it's because I'm a kind of person who, if I am hungry, I can eat a plain meal as long as it hits the spot, right? Like I don't have to have a lot of fancy seasonings on things. That's why, you know, my favorite movie was one of the simplest horror movies in Halloween. I didn't need the crazy practical effects of a nightmare on Elm Street with Freddy Krueger and Robert England, right? When I think of this movie, I wasn't prepared for the emotional devastation that lay ahead of me. And I didn't know that it would be possible to feel seen in a movie that is culturally so different from my own. However, looking at this point in my life, looking at like myself like nearing my 30s and thinking about just a the obligations that you have for your family, or the guilt that you feel having left your family for a really long time, and the things that you left unsaid, or wondering if someone's thinking about you with their last dying breath. Things like that haunt me. If you've listened to the show before, you probably know that the only thing I have left to fear is the inevitable fucking march of time. This movie hits that spot. This movie even takes the Americanization of a family and the watering down of cultural traditions and putting it into a child who doesn't know anything about where their family came from or what their lineage is. This movie is a mind fuck because it's so simple, but it's so complex at the same time. And I'm so fucking glad I saw it. There is one bit of CGI in here that drove me batshit crazy, but that is irrelevant because this movie is still getting a slash.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Woo! I really think the studio did this movie dirty. I think they were like, whatever, let's not even promote it. It'll just come out and everyone will forget about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

I can't imagine that being the case though, because Sandra O and Sam Raimi, I mean, Sam Raimi's doing a lot of big stuff for Marvel right now. I just can't imagine them snubbing him this way.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

I have so many questions about why this movie was marketed or not marketed the way it was, and what happened in posts that we won't be able to answer tonight, but hopefully in time the stories will reveal themselves.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Well, let's see if we can learn more about it in our follow-up in subsequent weeks. But for now, Oma from 2022 has earned a universal slash, and there might be something here when Paris and I are the only ones on the episode. Maybe there's nothing left to get in between our own agreements.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Oh my god, maybe. Or maybe we just like pick movies that we have a good chance of liking.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Maybe, but this movie is showing in theaters. Now, I do believe it has a semi limited theatrical release.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Shady.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

So good luck finding it at a theater near you. But either way, check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can unpack the emotional trauma together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Don't let this movie be forgotten. Hey honey bee, are you looking for something sweet to brighten up your day? Look no further than Oma's Honey. Oma's Honey is harvested locally from sustainably kept bees. In Oma's family-owned and operated apiary, the bees are free to come and go as they please. The staff can leave too. They just don't want to. Why do you ask? Who have you been talking to? Everything I've done, I've done for them. I built these hives with my own hands. Anyway, ask about our Mother's Day special. Oma's Honey. Your mother always gets what she wants.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Oma, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the matter of gore to attend to. Paris, I know it's a spooky, haunting movie, but what's our gore score?

SPEAKER_00 22:53

The gore score is low for the movie. Uh a little disappointing for me. I wasn't expecting a ton of gore, but you know me, I wouldn't have minded a ton of gore. Give me an explosion of blood at the end. Give me a decapitation, just real quick, you know? They build up these characters in such a way that seeing one of them die would have really made me feel something. But we did not get a lot.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

That's totally fair, Paris. When I think of the goriest part of a movie being something involving animals, I think that's often testament of a disappointment in terms of the uh gore and violence category, but I will say that the attention, I think, uh made up for it. I don't think that I could have really emotionally taken much more pain uh for either Amanda or Chris.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

You know I'm a glutton for that shit, Chris, so I definitely could have taken it.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

No, sir.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

I gotta disagree though. I think the goriest part of the movie is when Sandra O, possessed by her mom, grabs onto that live wire and then just like shows her rotted, wounded hand that's all like burned and like oozing, and then presses it against her daughter's face.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

That was nasty.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Here's a complaint I have then. What kind of theater did you see this in?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Uh, the smallest theater AMC had because this movie was snubbed.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Fair. I also saw it in the smallest theater that AMC had. The very last one, all the way tucked away in the corner, it was really sad almost. I was like, I didn't realize they still made theaters this small.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

My seat didn't go back an inch.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

No, not at all. It was so sad. But the goriness of that hand you speak of, I couldn't see it.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I saw her like I knew what she was doing, but the hand was just dark, and then it goes up against Chris's face. I'm like, okay, I'm there's probably something there. Couldn't see it on my screen.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Oh, that's a shame because one thing that I noticed about this movie is that it had beautiful detail in all of its shadows. I was able to see the ooze in the textures of that hand, and it was gross.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, no, it was very clear to me that it was a shortcoming of the screen and not the movie.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Damn, that sucks. So it was snubbed even further.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, I do want to see it again. Oh my god, I would love, and I was thinking about this as we had a lot of like running in the halls in the house, a lot of banging on the doors. I was like, this movie was fucking made for Dolby.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Well, actually, one of the jumpscares that got me was not it wasn't a Dolby Theater, don't get me wrong, but it was from some of that like loud banging in an old wooden house. I don't know why. Something about that just like stresses me out.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

But I think that's the point, Paris, because it's an old wooden house, and old wooden houses rarely have more than one or two people in it. It's too much house for two people, but that's why there's room for the ghosts.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

It's always too much house for two people. We don't have any favorite kills here, do we?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

We favorite near kills? Um my favorite near kill was Sandro being suffocated in in her orchard. No, that was rough to see, actually. I didn't like that one bit.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

I think for me, my favorite near-death or like spooky kind of moment had to have been when the daughter is in the basement and then either some final destination shit happens and she gets locked in there, or Amanda, the mom, is the one closing it and holding her down there. You get this like skewed, distorted perception of reality that's going on, and it reminded me a lot of Oculus, where a character is actively doing something that goes against their nature and their desires, and then they come to and they're like, Wait, where am I? What am I doing? Oh my god, I'm maybe killing my daughter. And I thought that was like a really intense and like trippy kind of moment that I was like, Oh shit, Sandra, oh, what are you into?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Okay, yeah, that was a really great moment. Still one that is horrowing at best, but I think you know, you talked about Final Destination shit. I'm actually gonna think about Amityville shit, because I think the the best thing for me in terms of a moment of spook was her putting on the beekeeper hat, mask, helmet mesh thing, seeing Oma, taking it off, Oma's gone, putting it back on, but omas up in the window in the attic. It was really giving me the energy of the spooky windows from the Agneyville house.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Except nothing but a a mother looking down in disappointment and shame at you.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Plus her taking it off again and she's still there.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That's when she was like, oh shit, my daughter, get me in the house.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Absolutely. And oh my gosh, I was even just thinking about the first time that we see Oma at the very beginning.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

As a sleep paralysis demon?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

As a sleep paralysis demon, yes. And normally the jump scare is like the the creature being there when at the musical sting, but at this time, Oma disappears at the musical sting. I'm like, ah, you motherfuckers are getting this. It's good.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

That was very chilling, just seeing her sitting over there in the corner, and I was like, oh, make it go away. It was also, again, like the shadows were so well done that I was like, ugh, I I I can see enough of her to know that she's there, but she's not going away.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Visually, for me, Oma was my favorite part. I think it gets a little bit weird when Sandra O becomes Oma, and she's wearing the mask at one point, but it doesn't look like the mask at all. It looks like Jim carries the mask, and it looks like her face is almost animated in some spots. But you know, visually just looking at this apparition, just lurking in the background, you know, slightly out of focus behind any principal characters on screen. Fucking chilling.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

And talking shit.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Oh yeah, talking shit the entire time.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, like just the idea of my mom coming back as a ghost and like one invading my home, invading my space, rummaging through my things, causing a mess, and then just like whispering horrible things to me all the time. Nightmare fuel. There were a lot of ups and downs, I think, visually, for this movie. A couple of the highlights for me were the general bees of it all. We start off with like some really great macro slow-mo shots of some bees, and I was like, oh, there's a bees element. Okay, Candyman, maybe. Maybe we're going in that direction a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Okay, yeah. 2021 gave us Candyman, 2022 gives us Oma.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

But generally, I enjoyed the B element. I always find apiaries to be really interesting, especially when it comes to like the costumes of it all. I think another one of my favorite visual elements, actually, I don't know if this is what you were referring to when you said you weren't a huge fan, but it was in general, Sandra O's face. I mean, my god, one of the most beautiful faces I've ever seen on a human. But the way her face slowly started to morph into Oma, because I think it was really restrained and really subtle, to the point where sometimes I was like, is it happening or is it not happening? And I was like really questioning.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Paris, you know I love restrained and subtle. Of course I loved that shit. That was that didn't bother me at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

I think one of the other cool things about this movie is how there's absolutely no shortage of stellar scenes because of how awesome the chemistry is between Amanda and Chris. My favorite scene though is the one that hurts the most. And it's the one with Amanda following Chris out, and she's just scolding her. She's telling her that she can't make friends. She's telling her that you're too afraid to make friends. Do you remember what happened the last time you went to school? You begged me to homeschool you. And that was just so devastating. I think what's really interesting there is to see that pivot from the beginning of the movie to that moment, to see Amanda becoming her own oma and to see this reality where the older you get in life, you start to lose your vision of your parents as they are. You look at them as these heroes, you know, unwavering people. And even if you don't think of them as heroes by any means, you don't realize how often flawed they really are. Like parents can annoy you, absolutely, but you don't see a lot of the vulnerabilities there unless you're experiencing something very specific and traumatic as a child. I think for the most part, parents try to keep that guarded away from their kids. But the older you get, you start to see that. You see how vulnerable you they are. You see how they continue to struggle with the things that you struggle with. And sometimes, especially, you know, when you're a child of immigrants and you're, you know, adapting to American culture, you see how they may not want to get the same kind of help that it has been normalized for you to get as an American citizen. It's wild. So I think that moment was heartbreaking, but it was just so fucking good.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Chris, that is also my favorite scene because of how fucking good it is. The performances from both actors like was gut-wrenching to me. And while I won't say that my mom has ever been like this abusive, um, we can say, I have had arguments like this with my mom growing up, and to see how quickly somebody who is like your biggest fan, your biggest supporter, your biggest cheerleader, who raised you with all the self-confidence, to see how quickly they can turn all of that that they've done into like a manipulation to like keep you in like a certain space, to like keep you in a certain place was so relatable, and it really like hit me right in the feels. And I was like, oh no, it was like so sick. The manipulation is so dark sometimes that it's just like you can't you can't really write this without having lived it. So I really have no doubt that everybody involved in this had some element of this that they related to. And it's also just like the subtleties in it, like specifically when she said you can't even make friends, like just nobody can take you out at the knees like your mom can because they've seen you at your most vulnerable. So to change and redirect that energy to something like manipulative and like dark is so sick and so fascinating to me as a viewer, but also like emotionally taxing. Um but I think I really related to the character of Chris in this movie. There's something about like sheltered kids who only know their mom and their mom is their best friend, and they get to like a certain age where it's like, hey, maybe you should have friends that aren't your mom. Um, that I really relate to because it's so there's like a lack of self-awareness to that, where from your perspective, you're like, oh, this is normal. My mom's my best friend, and I don't really have any other friends. We're we're we're each other's best friend. And then you kind of step outside of that and you learn that, like, oh, that's not necessarily the healthiest thing. People look at you differently because of this, people look at you as an outcast because of this. No, my mom let us use electric electricity, so it wasn't as bad it was as it was in this movie, uh, but it was definitely something I related to with that character. And then just to see the slaps that that conversation culminated in, they both crossed a line in their relationship that they'll never go back to. They have always they will always moving forward be past that point where they have like physically attacked one another.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

I completely align with you talking about you know your perspective as Chris as the sheltered kid, because that's just who I was. And I remember I'll now I'll never forget it, uh, leaving home for the first time. So growing up, Harrison, I don't know like what your experience was. I know you've talked about like having like friends in school. I truly had no friends. Leaving home for the first time at 18. I was absolutely terrified. And I saw how terrified my mom was. And I kept on trying to put on this brave face, like, yeah, I'm gonna be just fine, everything's gonna be cool. But internally, I'm panicking because I've never done anything alone ever. Ever. I wasn't allowed to stay home alone. Things like that. To f suddenly be out alone in the world was a terrifying thing. And watching that moment between Amanda and Chris, I thought about like, oh Chris, you have no idea how much you're gonna miss your mom. And I remember the first night in boot camp where we finally got as a because you had to like stay awake for 24 hours. The first night I like laid in my rack and I got to sleep, I spent like three hours crying because I was like, oh my god, what did I do? And that moment pulled so much out of my heart when I was watching this movie, and it just like it it is fucking traumatic.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, absolutely. You were asking what my experience was, and I did make friends very easily, but because my mom and I moved around so much when I was growing up, I never had friends for very long. It was always like, okay, I'll go to this school and I'll make a couple friends here, and then we'll move and I'll never see those people again. So, really, the only constant relationship that I had was with my mom. So there was never a friendship that compared to the one that we had, and also she really didn't have very many friends outside of me. So it was very like it was very much a codependent relationship, which we have since worked on and we've established some really great boundaries. We're in a really good place, my mom and I. Um, but it's it's definitely challenging being that weird, like mama's kid. Is that the scene that made you cry?

SPEAKER_01 35:36

A lot of scenes made me cry.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

The other one that made me cry was her talking to Oma and acknowledging, I know how you suffered, I know how hard things were for you. I know that you were happy in Korea, but you were expected to be a good wife, so you sub left for America to support your husband. And seeing that hurt so much, but also to see her then reestablish the boundary. You have to go. I can't sit with you that I can't take your pain anymore. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah, that was definitely a really therapeutic session that they had there together. And I like that we got that. It felt a little too let's wrap this up in a bow for me. Um, and I did have like a little bit of a comedic uh moment when that happened because Oma's like, You have no idea how I've suffered, you have no idea how I've been to. And then Sandra O gives a really clean, accurate synopsis of exactly what she's talking about. And I was like, Okay, well, maybe you do know exactly what I've been through, but I'm still a ghost and I'm still gonna be a bitch. And I was like, Well, now you don't really have a leg to stand on, Oma, because she's really reading you like a book and she's acknowledging your pain. So what you got now? But I think in the end it made sense because then that was what was able to help her move on. And it was like super sad, just like imagining like being successful and established in a place, and then God, your husband of all people dragged. Oh, you know what, Chris? The husband did do this. This is the husband's fault because he took his wife, moved her to a place she didn't want to move, the whole family was there, and then shit went downhill from there.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah. I like the prequel to this.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

The prequel to Oma is whatever the Korean word for father is.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah, exactly. Uh, one thing I did write in my notes though is that a man did ruin the vibe because the uncle just shows up with the ghost in a box and drops it off. And I was like, Really, sir, we had a great thing going in this Amish living we had.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Oh my god, it's so true. But also, fuck that uncle. Fuck that uncle. It was so bad. The doctor said it was a heart attack, but I know you're the reason why she died. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Darkness.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

He did have some like lines and nuggets of wisdom, sure, but even that moment, oh my gosh, the uh asking if if Chris was her daughter because he drove by her, saying she doesn't speak a lick of Korean, why is that? She's American, that's bullshit. It just reminded me of like even going to Puerto Rico with my mom, and all her relatives are like shocked that I don't really speak Spanish. And they're like, What? And my mom's like, leave her alone, it's whatever, she doesn't speak Spanish, everybody speaks English, it's fine. She was like low-key explaining this. But I always wondered, like, what kind of pressure did my parents have to feel because of that? Less so on my mom's side and more so on my dad's side. The dynamics there of like him being from Cuba and fleeing to America and having like a very proud Cuban heritage outside of that. Like, these are just questions.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, but generally, like, it's gotta be so challenging to be considered like not American enough for America, but also not Cuban enough for Cubans, and then you're kind of stuck living in this like liminal space in between, not really able to go to either side for like a feeling of identity or companionship, because they're kind of like, mm-hmm, you're not quite one of us. And then you're kind of like, Well, what am I? Because I'm something.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Oh, this is this is my therapy for the week, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

No, but I actually love this because this goes again with Chris, right? Chris, who is oblivious of any of her heritage in the beginning of the movie, and she starts asking these questions, and then by the end, she's embracing it. By the end, she's being supportive of her mother and just wants to help. You know, in the end, she's wearing her traditional garments and performing the ceremony to put her Oma to rest. And I mean, I think it's beautiful. I think, you know, we get to this point in life where you stop wanting to hide your heritage or keep it in your back pocket.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

I think that's a really interesting point, Chris. And we sort of see that contrast when Chris is introduced to like the new friend, like the new girl in town that's sort of visiting, and she's like considered like the normal girl. She's like got a phone, she's wearing makeup, she has like cool style. And you really see like an interesting contrast, like not only between them aesthetically, but also just between how Amanda's raising and the choices that she's made in raising her daughter have shaped her into a completely different person than what she may have otherwise been. I think something that I really appreciated though is that Chris's friend was not a bitch and she wasn't judgmental. She was actually very kind, she was very curious, and even though she seemed like a sort of superficial character that you might expect to be like a like a bully in sort of way, in a sort of way, uh, she ended up being somebody that was like really helpful and actually cared about Chris and her development and her growth and like supported her as a true friend. And I think for that to be her first experience with like a friend from let's say the outside, I think that was a really nice touch, and I'm glad that that happened for Chris as a character.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

I do agree that her kindness and I think the relationship that she establishes with Chris is one of the better parts of this movie. But look, I gotta tell you what the worst fucking part of this movie is. It's the CGI fox.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

I'm not mad at like the fox itself existing. I am so confident it actually has cultural significance.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

But the quality of the CGI was so it's so jarring, I couldn't get into it.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I absolutely agree, Chris. I do know that the nine-tailed fox is significant culturally. We also saw the nine-tailed fox on Oma's scarf that was tied around her suitcase. And we see Chris have a moment where she's like, oh, what is this thing? It does play a greater more metaphorical role. However, that CGI was so distracting and it was such a flop. That's why I feel like the movie was snubbed. I feel like they were like, you know what, just throw in this bullshit CGI fox and just say, fuck it. We're not even gonna advertise this movie. It doesn't even matter. It's fine. But what led up to that were two other really bad CGI moments, and I don't know if you caught them, but it like really built up for me. Right after we have this really amazing scene with the two of them, it's a really big climactic moment. They end up slapping each other. It cuts to show Oma's homebuke, her traditional garment hanging up, and it's like, oh, it's spooking around. But they use this like really cheap, shitty, like liquefy filter on it to make it look like it's like billowing in some way. And I was like, oh, that was why did we do that? That wasn't cute.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Didn't even notice that.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

It was subtle, but it was like very visibly just like liquefy, going up the up the garment to make it look like it was being inhabited or something. Uh, and then right after that, we have the scene where Sandra O is like fully possessed, and she has like that effect on her face where it just looks like a really terrible CGI, like dry, cracked face. And I was like, Oh, that was bad too. What's happening? And then we got the fox, and I was like, oh shit. This movie is headed for a downward spiral, things are escalating quickly in a worse, a horrible direction. And I was so glad that after that fox they really cut the bullshit. The fox as a symbol, love it, love the symbolism, could have been a really great impactful moment, but the quality of that CGI was unforgivable.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Do you agree that was the worst part of the movie then?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Oh yeah, easily. I think I had one other worst part, and I don't remember what it was because the moment that fox showed up, I said, nope. Oh, it was this. At some point, the characters are having a game night and they're playing a game. Chris, have you ever played the game that they're that they play in this movie?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Never.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Okay, it's it's called Rummy Cube. It is basically Rummy, uh, like the card game Rummy, but as like a tile game. At one point, one of the characters suggests that it's pronounced Rummy Cub because it's spelt R-U-M-M-I-K-U-B. And I was like, that made me sick. I was like, no, in no reality is that how this is pronounced. And then she's he's immediately corrected and she's like, it's Rummy Cube, you dumb bitch. And I was like, oh my god. The fact that anybody would even think that was abhorrent.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Look, everyone deserves representation, right? Even the people who think it's Rummy Cub.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I mean, that's true. I do famously still say GIF, even though I know it's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

That makes me sad. But I do think I would love to watch this movie again. However, it's gonna take a lot of emotional recovery time for me to be able to do so.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Yeah, this is definitely a movie that has rewatch value. I don't know that I'm like in a rush to rewatch it either. I think I'm glad I saw it, and I think other people should see it, but the the weight emotion.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Take some time to shake off is a great way to describe that, and I hope, dear listener, that that's not a deterrent from you to actually go check out this movie because it does deserve, at least in our humble opinions, far better than the 33% it has on Rotten Tomatoes right now. But for now, there you have it folks. Oma from 2022 knew the release now playing in theaters has earned a universal slash. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Did you also enjoy the emotional trauma of this film? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation for free by hanging out with us in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, you can never hide who you are.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Bye.